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	<title>Comments on: Abolish One Legislative Chamber</title>
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	<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809</link>
	<description>Michigan People, Politics, and Policy</description>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3678</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3678</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t do it.  It&#039;s a terrible idea grounded in a noble purpose.

As a long-time former legislative staffer, I witnessed bad legislation being passed by one chamber all the time because it was a  ploy to score political points.  Luckily, when the legislation made it to the other chamber-- even one controlled by the same party-- the other chamber would recognize the bad public policy for what it was and put the breaks on it.

We need insulation from the whims of any particular legislative chamber.   We shouldn&#039;t hand them an even more powerful megaphone and stage to display their sanctimonious, chest-thumping  political maneuvers. 

If we truly want to make substantive changes to the process, cut the number of members by a third in each chamber and then extend term limits for a total of twelve years.

We&#039;ve got so few players in the legislature who truly know how to get anything done.  Have you noticed how many legislators spend six years in the House and then leave with zero substantive accomplishments while they eye a run at the state Senate?
  
Let&#039;s pare the numbers of legislators back and focus on upgrading the quality of the ones we already have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t do it.  It&#8217;s a terrible idea grounded in a noble purpose.</p>
<p>As a long-time former legislative staffer, I witnessed bad legislation being passed by one chamber all the time because it was a  ploy to score political points.  Luckily, when the legislation made it to the other chamber&#8211; even one controlled by the same party&#8211; the other chamber would recognize the bad public policy for what it was and put the breaks on it.</p>
<p>We need insulation from the whims of any particular legislative chamber.   We shouldn&#8217;t hand them an even more powerful megaphone and stage to display their sanctimonious, chest-thumping  political maneuvers. </p>
<p>If we truly want to make substantive changes to the process, cut the number of members by a third in each chamber and then extend term limits for a total of twelve years.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve got so few players in the legislature who truly know how to get anything done.  Have you noticed how many legislators spend six years in the House and then leave with zero substantive accomplishments while they eye a run at the state Senate?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s pare the numbers of legislators back and focus on upgrading the quality of the ones we already have.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3667</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3667</guid>
		<description>How about 83 reps? One for each county elected to 4-year terms running with the governor&#039;s 4-year term.  No need for a Lt. Governor&#039;s deciding vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about 83 reps? One for each county elected to 4-year terms running with the governor&#8217;s 4-year term.  No need for a Lt. Governor&#8217;s deciding vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Muchmore</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3544</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Muchmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3544</guid>
		<description>This is what the Dome is all about, stirring political wag&#039;s interests and a discussion of democratic processes and differing points of view.  For that alone, this type of civil discourse so often missing today, Tom&#039;s mag should be congratulated.  

Of course, there&#039;s a case to be made that there is no reason for the development of bi-cameral legislatures.  The federal model was extended to most of the states (save one) for the simple reason that it evolved more support for statehood creation and that &quot;it&#039;s the way the founding fathers thought it should be&quot;.  

The federal system is after all, an anachronism created to protect landowners from populist movements that often  were interested in what the landowners held and how they, the populists, could get their hands on it.
Craig is probably right that there is no real definable reason for having two chambers, at least, it is not easily defendable.  

Perhaps measuring it against parliamentary government, albeit a system from which the ultimate leadership is selected and usually a minor and much less significant second chamber is often present , is instructive.  Most parliaments swing wildly in intervals and take their countries in and out of forms of government.  Ours tends to swing less dramatically and requires more time for the pressures for change to be evident.  Perhaps that is the legacy of the bi-cameral form.  I suspect that is the happenstance with state bi-cameral legislatures as well.

There are, of course, variations on the uni-cameral theme, Wisconsin&#039;s Joint Appropriations decision committee structure comes to mind, but basically the question is, is a change going to result in benefit?  I doubt that it will.  As long as legislators look at the position as a full time occupation and one in which the slary is most important, they&#039;ll view it as a personal need rather than a political philosophic debating society.  They will be focused on stretching the activities of the job so that it will appear as if they are justified in accepting the salary.  

We would probably be better served if we just told elected officials and candidates that this job pays $X (and make it decent), half to be paid over the next four months and half upon completion of session, and the session runs from Jan. 20-May 15 (there is no magic to this date, but the Ides of March have some precedent after all).  If the budget isn&#039;t in place and finished by May 15th, the legislature does not receive its final half payment.  That should solve Craig&#039;s original concern that something needs to be done to accomplish the goal of putting a functioning government in place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what the Dome is all about, stirring political wag&#8217;s interests and a discussion of democratic processes and differing points of view.  For that alone, this type of civil discourse so often missing today, Tom&#8217;s mag should be congratulated.  </p>
<p>Of course, there&#8217;s a case to be made that there is no reason for the development of bi-cameral legislatures.  The federal model was extended to most of the states (save one) for the simple reason that it evolved more support for statehood creation and that &#8220;it&#8217;s the way the founding fathers thought it should be&#8221;.  </p>
<p>The federal system is after all, an anachronism created to protect landowners from populist movements that often  were interested in what the landowners held and how they, the populists, could get their hands on it.<br />
Craig is probably right that there is no real definable reason for having two chambers, at least, it is not easily defendable.  </p>
<p>Perhaps measuring it against parliamentary government, albeit a system from which the ultimate leadership is selected and usually a minor and much less significant second chamber is often present , is instructive.  Most parliaments swing wildly in intervals and take their countries in and out of forms of government.  Ours tends to swing less dramatically and requires more time for the pressures for change to be evident.  Perhaps that is the legacy of the bi-cameral form.  I suspect that is the happenstance with state bi-cameral legislatures as well.</p>
<p>There are, of course, variations on the uni-cameral theme, Wisconsin&#8217;s Joint Appropriations decision committee structure comes to mind, but basically the question is, is a change going to result in benefit?  I doubt that it will.  As long as legislators look at the position as a full time occupation and one in which the slary is most important, they&#8217;ll view it as a personal need rather than a political philosophic debating society.  They will be focused on stretching the activities of the job so that it will appear as if they are justified in accepting the salary.  </p>
<p>We would probably be better served if we just told elected officials and candidates that this job pays $X (and make it decent), half to be paid over the next four months and half upon completion of session, and the session runs from Jan. 20-May 15 (there is no magic to this date, but the Ides of March have some precedent after all).  If the budget isn&#8217;t in place and finished by May 15th, the legislature does not receive its final half payment.  That should solve Craig&#8217;s original concern that something needs to be done to accomplish the goal of putting a functioning government in place.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Owens</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3455</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Owens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3455</guid>
		<description>For three years I managed the public policy program in six states for my employer.  Nebraska was one of them.

I can see no merit in a unicameral legislature.  Like term limits, it gives the illusion of &quot;doing something&quot; while doing nothing - or worse.  A part-time legislature on the other hand, if properly constructed would be a substantive improvement over the status quo in Michigan.

Of the six states I managed, four were part time.  Get rid of term limits and move to a part time legislature.  By the way, under a part-time legislature the budget would most likely have been done back in April.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For three years I managed the public policy program in six states for my employer.  Nebraska was one of them.</p>
<p>I can see no merit in a unicameral legislature.  Like term limits, it gives the illusion of &#8220;doing something&#8221; while doing nothing &#8211; or worse.  A part-time legislature on the other hand, if properly constructed would be a substantive improvement over the status quo in Michigan.</p>
<p>Of the six states I managed, four were part time.  Get rid of term limits and move to a part time legislature.  By the way, under a part-time legislature the budget would most likely have been done back in April.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Ruff</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3402</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Ruff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3402</guid>
		<description>1.  Jeff:  I&#039;m a born-again believer in getting rid of term limits. You&#039;re so right.
2. Bob:  Why didn&#039;t I call you--Michigan&#039;s premier expert on districting--before I wrote? You are, as usual, more nearly right than I.
3. Greg Mann:  Stay tuned. The Ferency plan, which I love, is the next focus of my commentaries.
4. Greg Clark:  You make a strong case for staggered terms (2 years and 4 years) based on the chamber in which you serve ... and that&#039;s not possible with a single chamber. One solid reason for sticking with two chambers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  Jeff:  I&#8217;m a born-again believer in getting rid of term limits. You&#8217;re so right.<br />
2. Bob:  Why didn&#8217;t I call you&#8211;Michigan&#8217;s premier expert on districting&#8211;before I wrote? You are, as usual, more nearly right than I.<br />
3. Greg Mann:  Stay tuned. The Ferency plan, which I love, is the next focus of my commentaries.<br />
4. Greg Clark:  You make a strong case for staggered terms (2 years and 4 years) based on the chamber in which you serve &#8230; and that&#8217;s not possible with a single chamber. One solid reason for sticking with two chambers.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Clark</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3383</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3383</guid>
		<description>The author forgets the importance of the differing terms of the two Houses. Our forefathers thought it important to provide one house with 2 year terms. Their short terms had them looking over their shoulders perpetually.
They were to represent &quot;The mob&quot;, the latest passions of society. 

The other House was to have longer terms. This was to give those officeholders more independence from &quot;The Mob&quot; and allow them to be wise and independent. They were to take the long view and have the independence to do what is wise not just what is popular.

I think this is a good blend and worth keeping. If a bill can get through &quot;The Mob&quot; and &quot;The Wise Men&quot; it&#039;s likely a decent bill. If we were to have only 1 House, which would you give up? 

I believe it would be far more constructive to eliminate term limits. 

Secondarily I would recommend Michigan stagger its existing Senate Sweat elections so that half are up for election every 2 years. This would tamp down the tendency of the Senate to act more favorably to &quot;The Mob&quot; as they collectively head towards the next election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author forgets the importance of the differing terms of the two Houses. Our forefathers thought it important to provide one house with 2 year terms. Their short terms had them looking over their shoulders perpetually.<br />
They were to represent &#8220;The mob&#8221;, the latest passions of society. </p>
<p>The other House was to have longer terms. This was to give those officeholders more independence from &#8220;The Mob&#8221; and allow them to be wise and independent. They were to take the long view and have the independence to do what is wise not just what is popular.</p>
<p>I think this is a good blend and worth keeping. If a bill can get through &#8220;The Mob&#8221; and &#8220;The Wise Men&#8221; it&#8217;s likely a decent bill. If we were to have only 1 House, which would you give up? </p>
<p>I believe it would be far more constructive to eliminate term limits. </p>
<p>Secondarily I would recommend Michigan stagger its existing Senate Sweat elections so that half are up for election every 2 years. This would tamp down the tendency of the Senate to act more favorably to &#8220;The Mob&#8221; as they collectively head towards the next election.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Lambert</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3372</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Lambert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3372</guid>
		<description>A part-time, unicameral legislature is a great idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A part-time, unicameral legislature is a great idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob LaBrant</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3359</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob LaBrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3359</guid>
		<description>Craig, 
Reynolds v. Sims (1964), not Baker v. Carr (1962) was the U.S. Supreme Court case that required both houses of a state legislature to have districts drawn on the basis of population. Baker v. Carr stands for the proposition that the failure to redistrict was a violation of the 14th Amendment and subject to judicial review. Prior to Baker v. Carr the Courts treated redistricting cases as  a political question, best left to the political process not the courts to resolve.
Baker v. Carr had been decided while the 1961-62 Constitutional Convention was meeting. Reynolds v. Sims was not decided until a year after the voters narrowly approved the 1963 Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig,<br />
Reynolds v. Sims (1964), not Baker v. Carr (1962) was the U.S. Supreme Court case that required both houses of a state legislature to have districts drawn on the basis of population. Baker v. Carr stands for the proposition that the failure to redistrict was a violation of the 14th Amendment and subject to judicial review. Prior to Baker v. Carr the Courts treated redistricting cases as  a political question, best left to the political process not the courts to resolve.<br />
Baker v. Carr had been decided while the 1961-62 Constitutional Convention was meeting. Reynolds v. Sims was not decided until a year after the voters narrowly approved the 1963 Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Mann</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3358</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3358</guid>
		<description>What about the Ferency&#039;s proposal?  Unicameral, with multi member districts.  

I remember Joe Forbes, House Majority Leader in the 70s and 80s saying that &quot;The State Senate is the best argument for a unicameral legislature.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the Ferency&#8217;s proposal?  Unicameral, with multi member districts.  </p>
<p>I remember Joe Forbes, House Majority Leader in the 70s and 80s saying that &#8220;The State Senate is the best argument for a unicameral legislature.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sharlan Douglas</title>
		<link>http://domemagazine.com/blogs/craigsgrist/cr0809#comment-3356</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharlan Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domemagazine.com/blogs/?p=982#comment-3356</guid>
		<description>Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen.</p>
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